Comments on: Building a Smarter Transportation System http://asmarterplanet.com/blog/2009/03/building-a-smarter-transportation-system.html Instrumented. Interconnected. Intelligent. Wed, 08 Feb 2012 22:31:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Maragret Piraino http://asmarterplanet.com/blog/2009/03/building-a-smarter-transportation-system.html#comment-395254 Maragret Piraino Sun, 27 Nov 2011 08:07:53 +0000 http://asmarterplanet.com/blog/2009/03/building-a-smarter-transportation-system.html#comment-395254 There is noticeably a bundle to learn about this. I assume you made certain good factors in options also. There is noticeably a bundle to learn about this. I assume you made certain good factors in options also.

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]]> By: Jean Barsoum http://asmarterplanet.com/blog/2009/03/building-a-smarter-transportation-system.html#comment-5243 Jean Barsoum Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:06:01 +0000 http://asmarterplanet.com/blog/2009/03/building-a-smarter-transportation-system.html#comment-5243 @cw I'm not sure where to start... So I'll go point by point - Why is congestion pricing a rip off? Doesn't that depend where the money goes? What if it went to making the infrastructure better, wouldn't that be acceptable? - If you live in the US, you pay less tax on gasoline than most other places. This list is a year old but I'd be willing to bet it's not that far off. http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/01/news/international/usgas_price/?postversion=2008050109 . The question isn't whether you pay enough tax but whether the money that IS collected goes to the right place, and is collected from the right people (ie people who use the road). - I'm all for a better way to divert people to the least congested roads. But this system has to avoid the trap of redicting everyone to the same alternate road, which is what happens now. You just create another bottleneck. - A smart meter is a way to avoid rationing, not a way to create it. It keeps prices lower by making sure people who use electricity when it is most expensive have a reason to shift their consumption at another time. At the moment you do not pay what electricity costs, because you pay a fixed rate. If you paid the REAL cost of electricity, the way your utility does, you night rate would be cheap and your peak rates would be high. If your prices move in line with theirs, everybody's costs will go down. The meter does not tell you what to consume, it just tells you when you are better off consuming. What you do is up to you. - Having the utility shut down your AC is VOLUNTARY. YOU decide if you want to keep your AC running when it's expensive to do it. If you don't care about the costs, no one is forcing you to shut it down. Other people might choose to lower their bills. @Roy your scenario is doable but I don't think it will solve the problem as effectively. Synchronised traffic lights or speed indicators can be very effective but they don't work in all places. An accident on a highway messes everything up. Plus you can't force people to drive a certain speed so you end up with the accordeon effect. I'd challenge you to convince New Yorkers that this system would work on the Cross-Bronx Expressway, for example. - Are you saying that US drivers will not be swayed by congestion pricing because it snows there (although presumably that is rare in Mesa, Arizona), because there are no shelters at bus stops, or because the drivers are rude? Seems to be all those things are "fixable". If your point is that it is not culturally acceptable for Americans to use public transit, well.... I think that is debatable. And the day gas hits $6 a gallon (like it has in many other places around the world) a lot of people will change their culture in a hurry. I don't think anyone can argue against your last point, about keeping the engine running as little as possible. But even better would be for it not to have to run at all. @cw

I’m not sure where to start… So I’ll go point by point

- Why is congestion pricing a rip off? Doesn’t that depend where the money goes? What if it went to making the infrastructure better, wouldn’t that be acceptable?
- If you live in the US, you pay less tax on gasoline than most other places. This list is a year old but I’d be willing to bet it’s not that far off. http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/01/news/international/usgas_price/?postversion=2008050109 . The question isn’t whether you pay enough tax but whether the money that IS collected goes to the right place, and is collected from the right people (ie people who use the road).
- I’m all for a better way to divert people to the least congested roads. But this system has to avoid the trap of redicting everyone to the same alternate road, which is what happens now. You just create another bottleneck.
- A smart meter is a way to avoid rationing, not a way to create it. It keeps prices lower by making sure people who use electricity when it is most expensive have a reason to shift their consumption at another time. At the moment you do not pay what electricity costs, because you pay a fixed rate. If you paid the REAL cost of electricity, the way your utility does, you night rate would be cheap and your peak rates would be high. If your prices move in line with theirs, everybody’s costs will go down. The meter does not tell you what to consume, it just tells you when you are better off consuming. What you do is up to you.
- Having the utility shut down your AC is VOLUNTARY. YOU decide if you want to keep your AC running when it’s expensive to do it. If you don’t care about the costs, no one is forcing you to shut it down. Other people might choose to lower their bills.

@Roy

your scenario is doable but I don’t think it will solve the problem as effectively. Synchronised traffic lights or speed indicators can be very effective but they don’t work in all places. An accident on a highway messes everything up. Plus you can’t force people to drive a certain speed so you end up with the accordeon effect. I’d challenge you to convince New Yorkers that this system would work on the Cross-Bronx Expressway, for example.

- Are you saying that US drivers will not be swayed by congestion pricing because it snows there (although presumably that is rare in Mesa, Arizona), because there are no shelters at bus stops, or because the drivers are rude? Seems to be all those things are “fixable”. If your point is that it is not culturally acceptable for Americans to use public transit, well…. I think that is debatable. And the day gas hits $6 a gallon (like it has in many other places around the world) a lot of people will change their culture in a hurry.

I don’t think anyone can argue against your last point, about keeping the engine running as little as possible. But even better would be for it not to have to run at all.

]]> By: Roy Poole http://asmarterplanet.com/blog/2009/03/building-a-smarter-transportation-system.html#comment-5023 Roy Poole Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:12:43 +0000 http://asmarterplanet.com/blog/2009/03/building-a-smarter-transportation-system.html#comment-5023 What a joke! Volume Pricing in Stockholm lowers the environmental numbers. I don't know about Stockholm, but I can assure you, that if you attempt volume pricing in major American cities, all you do is enrich the politicians, lower highly localized environmental numbers, and reroute thousands of commuters on a longer journey, using more fossil fuels, to get to their destination (since they can't afford the volume price penalties). I am to believe that IBM cannot develop a system of sensors leading to critical intersections? I am also to believe that no one at IBM has the skill to take such incoming and rapidly changing data and process it so the traffic controlling lights can be instantly changed to respond to changes in traffic flow. And am I to believe that IBM is incapable of providing feedback responses to the drivers (via in-car receivers or illuminated signs) which will enable the drivers to "time" their approaches to intersections so as not to be delayed? Mesa, Arizona has a long stretch of heavily used commercial road which signs advise users traffic control timed for a given speed. Guess what?!! Drivers adhere to those speeds, zip through intersections without stopping, and don't sit in long lines with air conditioners humming, wasting gas. Unlike Stockholm, volume pricing is not going to cause American drivers to rush to the nearest bus stop, wait un-sheltered in the snow storm, and finally get a delayed bus with a consummately rude driver. Instead, let's work together to cut down the time an automobile engine must be running by getting the vehicle from point A to point B in as short a time as possible. What a joke! Volume Pricing in Stockholm lowers the environmental numbers.
I don’t know about Stockholm, but I can assure you, that if you attempt volume pricing in major American cities, all you do is enrich the politicians, lower highly localized environmental numbers, and reroute thousands of commuters on a longer journey, using more fossil fuels, to get to their destination (since they can’t afford the volume price penalties).
I am to believe that IBM cannot develop a system of sensors leading to critical intersections? I am also to believe that no one at IBM has the skill to take such incoming and rapidly changing data and process it so the traffic controlling lights can be instantly changed to respond to changes in traffic flow. And am I to believe that IBM is incapable of providing feedback responses to the drivers (via in-car receivers or illuminated signs) which will enable the drivers to “time” their approaches to intersections so as not to be delayed?
Mesa, Arizona has a long stretch of heavily used commercial road which signs advise users traffic control timed for a given speed. Guess what?!! Drivers adhere to those speeds, zip through intersections without stopping, and don’t sit in long lines with air conditioners humming, wasting gas.
Unlike Stockholm, volume pricing is not going to cause American drivers to rush to the nearest bus stop, wait un-sheltered in the snow storm, and finally get a delayed bus with a consummately rude driver.
Instead, let’s work together to cut down the time an automobile engine must be running by getting the vehicle from point A to point B in as short a time as possible.

]]> By: Smarter Cities - Live Coverage [English] | A Smarter Planet http://asmarterplanet.com/blog/2009/03/building-a-smarter-transportation-system.html#comment-4696 Smarter Cities - Live Coverage [English] | A Smarter Planet Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:03:04 +0000 http://asmarterplanet.com/blog/2009/03/building-a-smarter-transportation-system.html#comment-4696 [...] zoernert (42723) Blog Posts related to panel:- Malta- Stockholm- Rotterdam [press]- [...] [...] zoernert (42723) Blog Posts related to panel:- Malta- Stockholm- Rotterdam [press]- [...]

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